take a listen to what he said this weekend in colorado. >> all i'm saying is though that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform. this is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it. >> yesterday health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius appeared to back away from the public option even more. >> they have been more focused on a co-op, not for profit co-op as a competitor as opposed to a straight government-run program, and i think what's important is choice and competition, and i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those. but that is not the essential element. >> progressives have been infuriated today. they say that health care reform could be in trouble in the house without a public option. here is new york democratic congressman anthony wiener. >> i think there's probably about 100 members of the house who believe for various reasons that you need to have something

to bring down prices. if the president thinks he's cutting a deal to get senate votes, he's probably losing house votes. >> in fact, here is the math. there are 257 democrats in the house. 64 say they will not vote for a bill without a public option. that leaves 193 democrats supporting the bill. 218 democrats are needed to pass the bill. but on the senate side, there apparently are not enough votes for a public option. watch. >> look, the fact of the matter is there are not the votes in the united states senate for the public option. there never have been, so to continue to chase that rabbit i think is just a wasted effort. >> so where does all of this leave the white house today? officials are trying to clarify where things stand as negotiations in congress continue. nbc's savannah guthrie is following things from the white house. savannah, put it in perspective. the white house is either going to anger the left or they may

have problems with the center. where do they stand today? >> this is the classic predicament f you do something to appease the right side of the republican party or even the right side of the democratic party, then you're going to obviously lose the progressive side of the democratic party. that's clearly what's going on here. in some ways though, this is very consistent with what the white house has said about the public option all along, although it seems to take it a step further. again and again whenever asked, press secretary robert gibbs, even the president refused to treat the public option as a deal breaker. in other words, the president would never draw a line in the sand saying without a public option, i won't sign the bill, it's not real reform. so in some ways reading the body language and the tea leaves, could you see this coming. it did seem the administration, in particular kathleen sebelius, took it a little further with her remarks saying the public option is not essential. this creates a lot of problems with the left side of the democratic party and particularly in the house. so the issue is what comes out

of the senate finance committee, whether this co-op is acceptable not just to those in the senate, including moderate democrats, but also to the house. whether this would be sufficient in their minds to create that choice and competition, so this conference committee between the house and senate is going to be a battle and this only adds to that. speaking of battles, we continue to watch the battles in terms of the protesters who were showing up. there were a few more protesters at yet another obama event that showed up with guns in the short of leg holsters. what's the view on this from people who are either traveling with the president or inside the white house? >> reporter: they really don't want to touch this issue with a ten-foot pole. anything regarding the president's security is not something you get a lot of information out of the white house on. i mean, you know, obviously in the case here in arizona today, as i understand it, the person was lawfully assembled and was there consistent with arizona law. so they're not going to get into that. in terms of the president's security, it's just not something they talk about much here. >> savannah, one more thing. we just got a statement in from

house speaker nancy pelosi. here is what she says. there is strong support in the house for a public option. a public option is the best option to lower bests, improve the quality of health care, ensure choice and expand coverage. that's from nancy pelosi. fair to assume, savannah, this is essentially a political effort by the house speaker to put some pressure on the president and say you're not going to have to deal with just the senate, you're going to have to keep our concerns in mind as well. >> reporter: sure, and also she has to appease her own caucus members who she's hearing from. she's got to keep them in line. note the language, once again it's always the public option is the best way. i mean even the president says that. public option is the best way to ensure choice and competition. what you don't hear from the speaker or president or anyone else here at the white house is that it's the only way. we'll have to see where this debate ends up. >> great reporting. nbc's savannah guthrie. savannah, thanks. we appreciate it. and now to the bigger

pictu picture. are republicans gaining ground because of the fight over health care reform? apparently republicans are feeling a little spring in their step. here's why. president obama poll numbers are dropping. and now there's a backlash against his health care plan. frank donatelli, the chairman ever go pac says it's helping invigorate his party. for the first time in six years the level of enthusiasm and intensity among our party members is higher than on the other side. independents are lining up with us and not democrats and that's a sea change. frank donatelli joins us on the phone live from milwaukee. frank, appreciate your time today. so, the base is fired up. the president's approval numbers are down, but today there's a political report pointing out that so far that hasn't translated into a jump in republican numbers. >> well, monica, i mean, i think you have to take one step at a time here. we have a newly elected president who is very popular, and so first out of the box he would have the opportunity to present his proposals, and

that's what he's done. the country has taken a look at what he's proposing, carbon tax, trillion dollar deficits and now government-run health care plan and they're turning thumbs down on that, so they're turning away from him. now, the next step is for us as a party to offer con struck tif solutions of our own and that will come in time -- >> how do you get past the label that's been put on the party, the party of no. how will you get past that now? >> just talking about the variety of alternatives that republicans at all levels have been talking about. i just came from our gopac conference in chicago where we had state legislators from over 30 states talking about ideas such as medical malpractice reform, medicaid reform, better health service information, and a whole variety of things at the state level that republican governors and legislators are offering. >> will there be more on health care from the republicans in terms of ideas? do you still have people out

there saying the republicans are offering right now 47 million americans without insurance. >> you're going to definitely hear more from republicans. look, we've talked about health savings accounts. we've talked about medical liability reform. senator mccain last year talked about equalizing the tax treatment to help people that buy insurance directly as opposed to those that buy them -- that acquire it from their employer. i must say the white house, the president demagogued on that issue now, so he probably can't back away from what would be a very good idea. there are bills out there sponsored by republicans, but remember, monica, we're in the minority, and so it's hard to get floor time for our ideas. it's hard to get public focus on it. but when obama care implodes, hopefully we'll have some solutions that the american public will embrace. >> frank, as you know, it's not hard to gum up things in the u.s. senate. you can essentially get a filibuster with -- i mean, you

need 60 to break a filibuster. if you keep your members, you're in good shape. if you can pick up one. is it a good idea for the republicans to filibuster health care? james carville is suggesting that's the strategic move. strategically is that smart advice? do you worry about republicans being in that position? >> david, if it's a bad enough bill and anything that contained the so-called public option, anything that would raise taxes the way the house is talking about doing, if it were things like that, absolutely we would have an obligation to filibuster. that is one of the tools available to the minority in the senate, and if we thought, as we do, that a health care bill was about to pass would make things worse in the country, we'd have an opportunity -- an obligation to do that. we hope still, there are democrats and republicans in the senate that are still talking, that there might be a

possibility that we could get together and come up with a plan that might have some republican support. i would say that is the thing that -- i think that the administration is missing here. if you're going to change health care in america, it does not make any sense in my judgment to try to change it on a party basis. >> frank donatelli, thanks so much for your time. >> okay, thank you all very much. david, there's an interesting piece in "the l.a. times" talking about the conservative mobilization talking about health care. they say it's not all good news for the republican leaders, that a lot of activists are turning their anger on republican senators and congressmen as well. they're not happy with them either. >> that's true because the democrats could call the gop bluff and say we'll take out the public option but here are the other things that hurt the health insurance industry that support you. it's going to be intriguing couple of weeks ahead. >> absolutely. >> michael vick is looking for

redemption now that the disgraced quarterback is a member of the philadelphia ea e eagl eagles. how does veteran quarterback donovan mcnabb feel about his backup joining the team? mcnabb fet with repomet with re and backed michael vick. >> and he understands the penalty and the consequences that came with it and serve your time. then you deserve an opportunity to kind of change your life around. >> apparently donovan mcnabb and michael vick are best friends. last night on "60 minutes" vick talked about his time in prison and said he's a changed mab. . >> i knew, you know, the magnitude of the decisions that i made and the poor judgment and what i, you know, allowed to happen to the animals, and, you know, it's no way of explaining, you know, the hurt and the guilt that i felt. and that was the reason i cried so many nights.

>> the entire story has simply gripped the city of philadelphia which is being torn apart with their love of the he'lls aeagle what michael vick did. >> reporter: michael vick has been busy on the practice fields in philadelphia with his new team, but he's been even busier off the fields doing public relations work trying to convince fans that the team made the right decision in offering him a multimillion dollar contract and welcoming him back to the nfl. based on polls and sports radio in town, it seems like the fans are evenly divided, perhaps with a bit more negative than positive. one powerful supporter he does have is the humane society which has recruited vick to go out and do work in the community talking to young people about the horrors of dogfighting and animal cruelty. the philadelphia eagles are

convinced they made the right decision. they feel vick has paid his debt to society. they say he deserves a second chance. ultimately the team thinks vick can help them win which is, of course, what this business of football is all about. back to you, david and monica. >> ron allen in philadelphia. monica, i have to tell you, i drove up to the east coast this weekend. that was all you heard about. as soon as you got within 100 miles of philadelphia, talk radio was just burning up about this question. do you love the eagles. do you love them enough to give vick a chance? fascinating debate. >> there's a gender divide out there as well. a poll that came out last week ahead of this interview was saying 7 in 10 male fans are in favor of vick. only 4 in 10 female fans feel the same way. the feds called in to investigate a police beating caught on dashcam video. does that tape tell the whole story? plus, first hurricane of the season gaining strength in the atlantic. where and when will it make

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welcome back. federal prosecutors could soon be investigating a case involving some disturbing police dashcam video. >> that's right, david. it shows six minneapolis police officers punching and kicking a man as they tried to arrest him. now, this happened back in february, and it all started with a stop for speeding. first, the officer who pulled daryl jenkins over wrestled him to the ground after jenkins

allegedly disobeyed the officer's order not to get out of the car. he then dragged jenkins to the curb. a minute later another squad car arrives on the scene. they start punches and kicking jenkins. another police car arrives and those officers also punch and kick jenkins. he was take ton a hospital and reportedly required seven stitches above his eye. after being treated, he was then jailed for four days. the video was released by jenkins and his lawyer. in their reports the officers said jenkins resisted arrest so they had to subdue him before placing him in two sets of handcuffs. after seeing the video minneapolis police chief tim dolan saying today he's asking the fbi to investigate. joining us on the phone now, minneapolis star tribune writer david channon. thanks for oning us. what's happened to the officers involved? >> nothing. back when the incident occurred, a supervisor and the watch

commander for the evening, they reviewed the video and in their report they said that the use of force was not unreasonable, so they have never been disciplined, they were never suspended until this video reappeared or appeared. it was a done deal as far as the department was concerned. but now the case is going to go beyond the fbi, the internal affairs unit and training unit will also be looking at it so there still could be discipline to some of these officer. >> in addition to the video we're watching, there's also some audio at least because the report i read, daryl, felt uncomfortable when this stop was about to happen when he saw he was being pulled over and he called his girlfriend. got her voice mail and so some of the altercation is caught on a voice mail tape, correct? >> that is correct. >> does that piece together more of what happened here? >> a little bit. it's hard to really understand some of it, but you can hear

jenkins repeatingly asking the officer what did i do, what did i do? and at one point you can hear the officer responding well, you know, this isn't a democracy, and kind of screaming when he pulls him out of the car and when he's getting kicked, kind of moaning and groaning a little bit, but you can't really hear too much of the back and forth between the twom two of them. >> it will be interesting to get the rest of the backstory. david channon, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> wow, david, tough to watch that. really do need to know exactly what happened there because that was a tremendous amount of force. he was also tasered a few times as well, i believe. >> and i'd also like to know what was said to the other officers who arrived on the scene. what were they told? because you just see the guy running out of the car that comes -- that's next and he just runs over and starts kicking the guy. how would that officer have known he was resisting arrest? he just takes an opportunity to kick the guy?

>> it's strange. some of the audio might add some more information and obviously we have yet to hear from the officers more specifically about what happened. so hopefully there will be a good outcome here. coming up, switching gears, jenny sanford talking, speaking out again. she's talking about her husband's infidelity and what he needs to do, she says, if he wants to stay married. >> it's a long list, monica. first we hear from the couple who found a furry surprise in their vacation snapshot. capturing the beauty of nature. sharing what i see. that's my vision. and i'm living it. everyday transitions lenses are there to help care for my sight. announcer: transitions lenses adjust to changing light to reduce glare and help protect your eyes from uv damage, so you can see better today and tomorrow. live your vision. transitions. healthy sight in every light. authentic transitions lenses

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are enjoying the new palm pre from sprint. its revolutionary web os allows multiple applications to run at the same time. - ( thunder and rain ) - millions are using the simply everything plan. - each is saving $1200 over an at&t iphone plan. - ( cash register dings ) together that's billions of dollars. enough to open a dunkin' donuts in space. from america's most dependable 3g network. bringing you the first and only wireless 4g network. get the palm pre. only from sprint. only on the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. monica, there are a lot of things that could be considered news in this world. >> but there are only a few story that is make us say -- >> no way! >> no way! >> that was pretty good ja. staff effort there. >> staff effort. new study out, the results of which give new meaning to drug meaning.

according to research terse at the university of massachusetts at dartmouth, paper money contain alarmingly high levels of cocaine. tests on paper currency in the u.s. revealed traces of cocaine on 210 out of 234 u.s. dollars sampled. can you believe that? >> wow. >> you might remember a lot of people talked about the fact that the paper dollars carry germs, so you're supposed to wash your hands if you handle cash, but cocaine? >> well, i have a feeling, moni monica, that one of my former college roommates unfortunately is accounting for some of that last we heard. just crazy. >> former roommate and now former friend. >> exactly. of course, no one knows which one it is. well, we know. monica, peta is out with a new outrageous and controversial campaign ad. a drawing on billboards in jacksonville, florida, shows an obese pom with the phrase save the whales, lose the blubber, go

vegetarian. a lot of people think the ad is sexist, but peta defends it saying the billboard reminds people who are struggling to lose weight that going vegetarian can be an effective way to shed those extra pounds. >> come on. okay. first of all, i don't even know that that is an o piece person. that's just a back, but i can see they tried to -- but they could have included a man's back there as well. >> absolutely. >> it could have been male and female. >> naethat's right. >> it's a one in a million picture. a minnesota couple taking photos at banff national park in alberta, canada, got a surprise when that ground squirrel popped into the frame. melissa and jackson brant appeared on the "today" show this morning and they tried to convince matt and ann that that photo is the real deal. >> you didn't doctor this in any way? >> it's 100% undoctored. we snapped a couple photos of

jus us. while we were doing that our little squirrel friend was running all over and then as we started taking the pictures he sort of ducked down into the rocks and then heard the shutter releasing and became interested, thought perhaps it was going to give him some food. >> and he popped up at just the right time. >> and that's not all. the squirrel has become a celebrity of sorts. thanks to photo shop. the little critter has been popping up all over like at the teen choice awards. trying to grab the spotlight from kathy griffin and levi johnston. also popped up in were clinton's trip to north korea, even made his way into orbit and landed on the moon. i don't know if you googled it at all but they're calling it squirrel bombing. people are going online and competing who can come up with the most clever way to pop this squirrel up into a picture. >> oh, no. >> you knew they couldn't resist

this. >> i'm not coordinated. >> i'll leave that to you. >> man ka, onica, here comes hu bill. >> picking up steam out in the atlantic. we'll get an update from the national hurricane center. chloe is 9 months old. she is the greatest thing ever. woman: one little smile, one little laugh. - honey bunny. - ( coos ) we would do anything for her. my name is kim bryant and my husband and i made a will on legalzoom.

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i'm amanda drury with your cnbc market wrap. the dow down 186 points. the s&p 500 down 54, and the nasdaq down 24. as investors become more cautious about the pace of global economic recovery, the price of oil continues to drop. crude dropped more than 1% today to close at $66.75 a barrel. well, a glimmer of hope for the housing sector though. the national association of home builders says confidence among

home builders rose one point to 18%. that's the highest level in more than a year. but disappointing news for airliners. an industry trade group for u.s. airlines expects the number of passengers to drop 3.5% over the labor day holiday compared to last year. the air transport association says consumers remain reluctant to spend because of the recession. that's it from cnbc for now. first in business worldwide. back to you. welcome back. i'm monica novotny live in new york. >> and i'm david shuster live in washington. and, monica, in the big picture, the 2009 atlantic storm season is in full gear with the first hurricane of the season, hurricane bill. it's packing 90-mile-per-hour winds and it's growing in size. over the next two days bill is expected to become a major hurricane as it moves on a track toward bermuda and possibly the east coast. we're also tracking tropical depression ana. the system could emerge in the

gulf of mexico late they are week. it's always dangerous because of the warm waters in the gulf. and tropical storm claudette made landfall along the florida panhandle early this morning. it's been downgraded to a depression, but it could still bring heavy rain to the deep south. >> in the bigger picture, are those three pictures a sign of an active hurricane season ahead. ed rappaport is the deputy director for the national hurricane center. he joins us on the phone from miami. ed, colorado state university, they revised their hurricane forecast earlier this month bringing the number of predicted hurricanes down to four. two of those though are expected to develop into major hurricanes. does it look like from this stage that bill would be one of those? >> at this stage we are forecasting bill to strengthen enough to meet that criteria and be a major hurricane, and i should note that noaa, which is the parent organization for the national hurricane center, also has updated its forecast to show a near to maybe slightly below

normal element of activity this year. >> and how concerned should folks on the east coast be right now about bill as we're watching it progress? >> at this stage it's a long ways off, and doesn't appear to be a threat at least in the next five days. as you indicated, at the end of that period we expect the hurricane to be between bermuda and the u.s. east coast. can't be too specific now about how far off the coast it will be. >> i got to ask you about the gulf coast. obviously with katrina, it just built in ferocity because of the warm gulf coast waters. how great a concern is that right now as far as any storm that goes into the gulf at this point? are the waters particularly warm or the conditions possibly for another type of katrina storm in a worst case scenario? >> the waters are warm in the gulf, and, in fact, they're a little above normal there this year, but they are as well over much of the tropical and subtropical atlantic where the hurricanes form and strengthen. this is what we would expect for this time of year is warm

waters. they are a little warmer than normal which could induce perhaps a little additional strength. >> ed rappaport, thanks so much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. the first lady of south carolina is talking. she's talking about her husband's affair. >> and quite candidly as a matter of fact, monica. jenny sanford spoke to "vogue" magazine about the state of her marriage to south carolina governor mark sanford. jenny sanford says they were not madly in love when they first met but were good friends and compatible and right now she says the future is up to him. quote, all i can do is forgive. reconciliation is something else and that is going to be a harder road. i have put my heart and soul into being a good mother and wife. now i think it's up to my husband to do the soul searching to see if he wants to stay married. the ball is in his court. jenny sanford also said she would not mind having someone 5,000 miles away to e-mail with, but she says that's just not realistic. she also compared her husband's

affair to an addiction. quote, i have learned that these affairs are almost like an addiction to alcohol or pornography. they just can't break away from them. >> david, i was so surprised to see this headline today, to hear she was speaking out again after we saw her so publicly moving out of the governor's mansion and making this move, and i thought it was for more privacy, but it seems she's still willing to carry out this conversation publicly. >> and it may just be part of her way of sort of expressing her anger. we saw her very publicly last week carrying boxes out of the governor's mansion in south carolina during the day at a time when she could have done it at night. you almost get the sense that her anger at her husband and for whatever -- we don't know what's going on with her husband right now, but she still feels the need to say, wait a second, remember me in all this as he continues in the governor's office. we're still dealing with a lot as far as our family. >> that's right, that's right. monica, our face-off is next. is the public option dead on

arrival in the health care reform debate? and what does that mean in the fight for health care reform? plus, a look back at the obama's family vacation out west. this is "the big picture" on msnbc. show and tell you weren't always my favorite day. with all the pet hair in the air, i'd spend class preoccupied, bothered by itchy eyes. but now i have new zyrtec® itchy eye drops. it works fast, with just one drop, to relieve my itchy eyes from allergies for up to 12 hours. no other allergy itchy eye drop works faster or longer. which is good, 'cause there's a lotta paws to shake. with new zyrtec® itchy eye drops i can love the air™. (announcer) find it in the allergy aisle next to other zyrtec® products. introducing the all new chevy equinox. with an epa estimated 32 miles per gallon. and up to 600 miles between fill ups.

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i called joni. my doctor said reclast helps restrengthen our bones to help make them resistant to fracture. and reclast is approved to help protect from fracture in more places: hip, spine, even other bones. (announcer) you should never take reclast if you're on zometa, have low blood calcium, kidney problems. or you're pregnant, plan to become pregnant or nursing. take calcium and vitamin d daily. tell your doctor if you develop severe muscle, bone or joint pain or if you have dental problems, as rarely, jaw problems have been reported. the most common side effects include flu-like symptoms, fever, muscle or joint pain and headache. nothing strengthens you like an old friendship. but when it comes to our bones, we both look to reclast. you've gotta ask your doctor! or call 1-866-51-reclast. year-long protection for on-the-go women. welcome back to "the big picture." is a public option not an option

anymore in the president's plan to overhaul health care? >> the politics of it is the focus of today's "face-off." the white house appears to be sending some mixed messages. last month president obama was pushing for a public option. now he says that's just a sliver of health care reform. health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius said this about the public plan yesterday. >> they've been more focused on a co-op, not for profit co-op as a competitor as opposed to a straight government-run program, and i think what's important is choice and competition, and i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those, but that is not the essential element. >> not the essential element. the white house says president obama still wants a public option. linda douglas, communications director for the white house office of health reform says nothing has changed despite what sebelius said. quote, the president has always said what is essential had that health insurance reform must

lower costs, ensure that there are affordable options for all americans and it must increase choice and competition in the health insurance market. he believes the public option is the best way to achieve those. julian and brad are here. if the white house believes a public option is the best way and they have 60 votes in the senate, why not do this through reconciliation? >> well, it's very hard to do health care reform through reconciliation. i think the democrats are concerned about whether or not they actually do have the votes for a public option. i think most democrats think it's the best way of curing a health insurance system running us all off the financial cliff. the mere virtue of the fact that the white house is even signaling this may be up for a discussion, that a co-op may also be on the table right now is in a political sense calling the bluff on the part of the republicans who have offered nothing here other than to protect the interests of the insurance industry, and now with the president and the white house making this signal, if republicans still don't come to

the table, then we will see their only agenda here is to protect the interests of the health care industry. >> brad blakeman, what do you make of that? >> julian, in case you didn't learn, you guys won the election. you have the white house. you have the house and the senate with high majorities. you don't need one single republican vote. if you guys could get your act together between liberals and also the blue dog democrats, you could have any bill you want anytime you want. the problem is with democrats, not with republicans. the republicans cannot stand in your way. it's only your own party that's doing it. you have howard dean, you have sebelius, you guys have multiple personalities. you don't know what you want and the american people don't know what they're going to get, and that's your problem. >> i will concede the democrats are a much, much more diverse party than are the republicans in all senses, including in terms of their points of view. i will also concede that the democrats do have a majority in both house and senate and some democrats, particularly the

conservative democrats, don't particularly like the public option. most democrats think the public option is the best way of bringing some competition to an insurance industry. the abuses of which have outlined from time immemorial. it is true democrats are not speaking with one voice. on the other hand, republicans have offered nothing. republicans are -- >> we don't have to offer anything. we do not have to offer one thing. >> but as brad is saying -- well, i guess you don't in one sense n another sense you really do as members of congress in a responsible party. >> we could have the best ideas and you guys wouldn't pass anything. >> what you offer, brad, is you organize a town hall and you try to do things like invent phony death panels that don't exist. >> come on. >>ened you a bring fe nand you table. >> people should be very, very afraid. >> brad is simply saying the republican strategy is to sit on our hantz. we don't have to offer anything. that's fine. at the end of the day whether

it's a public option or co-op, democrats will get something passed, we will have meaningful health care reform that gets us to universal coverage of the 47 million to 50 million that aren't cover and we will begin to regulate the insurance industry to cut out the waste. >> look, julian, itthe american people are fed up. >> but, julian, without a public option,truly health care reform? howard dean says it's not. >> well, again i think as brad pointed out, democrats have lots of different perspectives on this. i think you can get meaningful reform by expanding the medicaid and medicare system so we cover all of the uninsured in this country, which 1 out of 5, 1 out of 6 are not insured or under gin insure insured. i think we can have meaningful regulating of the insurance industry. we stop the insurance industry from getting in between the decisions of doctors and parts and stopping all the unfair denials of coverage which has been so widely documented.

i think we can have very -- >> stop the filibuster. stop the filibuster. let me get a word in here. >> bring something to the table then. >> here is what republicans stand for. republicans stand for putting people back to work. this grand diversion of health care when unemployment is at 10% nationally, 16%, people are having a hard time making ends meet at home. how can you afford health care if you don't have a job? >> brad, i don't think we want to go down -- wait a second. let's reset the table actually because we don't want to go down the argument. economy because the market has gone up by 3,000 points. >> that shows a very important point. >> on a separate point -- julian, quickly. >> it shows a very important point. when you say republicans offer nothing on health care, brad quickly changes the subject to issues about jobs. if you want to talk about jobs, we can talk about it all you want. republicans ran us over the cliff when it came to the economy. >> you're in power now. talk about what you're going to do, not the past. talk about what you're going to do.

>> what i'll say now, brad, is that every single major economist and analyst is saying the stimulus plan is working. the recession -- >> working? come on, please. >> the economy has turned the corner. look at the stock market. look at -- >> one day does not make a rally that is consistent -- >> brad, let's have this debate. i would love to have it with you. >> i want to -- >> now we're in positive growth. >> let's reset the table for a second. here is rachel maddow on "meet the press" talking about the obama white house possibly pulling back from the public option. >> if the president decides he's going to go with a reform effort that doesn't include a public option, what he will have done is spent a ton of political capital, riled up an incredibly angry right wing base who has been told this is a plot to kill grandma, and he will have achieved something that doesn't change health care very much and doesn't save us very much money. not a very good thing to spend a lot of political capital on.

>> do republicans not respect the democrats in the sense that just as a strategy, the democrats have 60 votes in the senate. if they can't go forward with the public option and jam it down the republican throats the way the republicans would have if they had 60 votes and had something on the table, is there a sense the republicans feel the democrats are just not disciplined? what's the view of the democrats' inability to put this together. >> they don't know what they stand for. they're trying to desperately do generational change to health care. they waited generations to do it and it's not going to work. their party is fractured and in disarray. you have the blue dogs who don't want to add the cost which the congressional budget office says will add to the deficit. not only add to the deficit but also increase our annual budget. the president said he wouldn't do that. and then you have the liberal democrats who are insistent upon a single payer option. it's not going to work. i don't care what julian says. there's not going to be the kind of generational health care that barack obama ran on because the

democrats will not per mity it -- permit it to happen. the republicans are innocent bystanders. >> so many americans think they're the party of no and the republicans number are worse than the democratic numbers. >> but, david, that tells you -- >> thank you both. >> they have nothing to offer on the economy and nothing to offer on health care. >> we're going to break. thank you very much. monica? >> did we elect anyone to be a bystander? i don't know. up next, some things we thought you should know. >> that's right. tom delay puts on his dancing shoes. wow. and then on "hardball" chris matthews looks at weather democrats are in trouble in 2010. ♪ take me home ♪ ♪ to my family [ female announcer ] clean you can see. softness you can feel. tide with a touch of downy.

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maybe you have heard about this. among its other capabilities, it would let me cook a meal while under nuclear attack. let me tell you something, if the united states of america is under nuclear attack, the last thing on my mind will be whipping up a snack. >> that was president obama talking about a high-tech helicopter, a helicopter that was supposed to be designed for him to ferry him around in the event of a nuclear attack. the pentagon scrapped it because of its high cost and it's just one of the things we thought our viewers should know today. >> that's right. it was a busy weekend for the obama family. president obama joined the first lady and his daughters for a tour of the grand canyon. they followed the rail of the

south rim the rim overlooked a 5,000 foot drop. old faithful erupted on cue as the first family walked up a path with the park rangers. >> that's why they call it old faithful, right? >> exactly. speaking of faithful, are you a faithful fan of dance stars? >> absolutely. how could i not be after that hillary clinton video from a week or two ago. now could i not be? >> former republican majority leader tom delay, tom delay is getting ready to strut his stuff on "dancing with the stars." the ninth season of the show kicks off in mid-september and delay is said to be ready. politico reports delay has been working out with a trainer all summer long. you can follow his movers at tom delay.com. delay is expected to start rehearsals with his dance partner next week. >> i admit -- go ahead, david. >> i was going to say if he's

dancing, then i suppose policywise he can't do any damage that democrats might fear. >> i was going to say when i saw that headline, i actually really thought it was a joke. only when they said, no, we're really putting it in the show today i realized they weren't kidding. he's really going to do that. i wonder who his partner will be. finally, you're not going to believe this one. levi johnston may get a bid more time added to his 15 minutes of fame if he follows through on a comment he made during a web cast with bravo tv. listen. >> we got an e-mail from steve in mississippi who wanted to know if you would ever consider posing nude. >> it depends on the money, man. it's got to be right for that. >> you have to go for the money, dude. >> that's right. >> you got to go for the money. we got a facebook -- >> it depends on the money, man. dude, it's all about the money. >> all about the money. i don't even know that i'll comment, but apparently a men's magazine of sorts has already

contacted him or has made a comment that perhaps there might be some interest. >> levi johnston, the only one benefitting from the palin chronicles. >> we might be seeing much more of him. >> exactly. we'll see if anyone else benefits. those are the things we just thought you should know. now, it is time for -- actually with the national debate over health care, august has been hardly a boring month in american politics. >> vocal protests have taken place at congressional town halls across the country, and president obama has held his own town hall meetings on health care. let's get to our next read on politics with the stories we're watching into tomorrow. there is mark murray, deputy political director for nbc news. what do you have for us? >> hey, monica and david. well, you said how is the health care debate playing? we have a brand new nbc poll coming out tomorrow night at 6:30 on "nightly news," msnbc, and msnbc.com should have a treasure trove of good data fors to use. also tomorrow president

obama will meet with the egyptian president mubarak at the white house. finally, we'll get some more economic da ta. the commerce department will be releasing a july report on housing starts. more data for us to pore over. >> we've been talking a lot about health care and whether the votes are there. it's clear perhaps as many as 100 democrats would abandon health care reform if do does not include the public option. a lot of democrats have said if you have 51 votes, jam it it through under reconciliation, but do they have 51 votes in the sfat for the public option? >> well, it actually just depends. you will kind of find out once we get the final legislation that the house and senate have to hammer between. you know, what is the public option? does a co-op end up looking a whole lot more like a public option. a lot of this still to be debated. it's one of the reasons why the white house really wanted the house and senate to have voted through bills before we got to this august recess. right no you we just are talking

about ther retices instead of hard pieces of legislation. when you have the debate over the public option versus a co-op, one thing to remember is in the united states senate that the politics are a little bit harder. obviously with ted ken dnedy an robert byrd, you're reduced to 58 democratic votes. when you're talking about reconciliation, remember there are holes in any type of reconciliation where the law can be changed that what ends up getting passed into set in stone. those are the things house democrats and house senators -- sorry, democratic senators have to look at when they're debating all these particulars. >> and, mark -- >> speaking -- go ahead. >> mark, is it true you already have your browser set to tomdelay.com to watch "dancing with the stars"? >> i have mc hammer's hammer

time. tom delay was nicknamed the hammer in washington, d.c. that song is one i want him to dance to devil. >> thank you, mark. >> you're going to be posing with squirrels before we're done. i'm david shuster. monica, pleasure having you on board. >> thank you. we'll see you tomorrow, david. to be or not to be. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, death to the public option. is it dead? over the weekend president obama said the pub lib option, quote, is not the entirety of health care reform. he had two of his lieutenants, his secretary of health and his press spokesperson both imply it was dead. then he wrote a 1,200 word op-ed

piece for the times and never once said public option. so what happens now? senate republicans won't vote for a plan with a public option. will enough house democrats vote for one without one? that's the to be or not to be question right now. will there be a health care bill or won't there? august has been a cruel mon for president obama. republicans are making the case he's going too far in expanding the role of government in our lives. liberal democrats and the folks on the net roots say he's not going far enough. the party in power generally loses many seats in the midterm elections, and nate silver, owe who is a pretty smart by on 538.com. he's saying there's ample reason for democrats to be very worried about next year's elections, perhaps deeply so about those 2020 results. he calls it a 1 in 4 or perhaps 1 in 3 chance that the dems will actually lose control of the house of representatives and that a republican will be elected speaker of the